Jesse Michels

Michels, who says he interviewed Dan Farah the day before, says Farah's documentary The Age of Disclosure contains almost no UFO footage and consists mainly of senior intelligence and political figures speaking, naming James Woolsey, James Clapper and John Brennan among them, with Marco Rubio and Chuck Schumer also appearing.

extremely high level people like Woolsey and James Clapper

Michels relays that Dan Farah firmly believes both the United States and China have retrieved crashed vehicles and are running separate reverse-engineering programs in a race.

He firmly believes that both the United States and China has retrieved these crashed vehicles

Michels says that, whatever one thinks of the intelligence community's motives, national security explains why a recovered-craft effort might now be opened up: it is an arms race, a 'Manhattan Project 2.0', in which the first project optimised payload and the new one something else.

this might be the Manhattan Project 2.0

Michels relays that podcaster Matthew Pines told him a CIA contact described AI, quantum computing and 'the Grusch stuff' as a triangle, and asks whether the simultaneous convergence of AI, quantum and UAP disclosure with deepfakes is a coincidence.

it's a triangle AI quantum and the grush stuff

Michels says a recent Rogan guest (the transcript reads 'hell put up', possibly Hal Puthoff) wrote a paper on 'ultraterrestrials', beings who may have survived the Younger Dryas cataclysm and now hold advanced technology in underwater and lunar bases, which would be what people see.

Maybe those survivors have underwater bases, bases on the moon

Michels says unidentified craft show up at all of the United States' nuclear sites.

They're showing up at nuclear sites which they do at all of our nuclear sites

Michels asks whether psychedelics are alien technology, linking the Telepathy Tapes (Ky Dickens) and Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End, in which, he says, aliens first communicate with non-verbal autistic children, and contrasts a psychedelic 'network' with a 'mark of the beast' bio-authoritarian implant network.

are psychedelics alien technology to get us to naturally

Michels says that in 1975 Neil Armstrong brought a BBC film crew to explore the Tayos cave in Ecuador, where Erich von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods placed ancient alien metal artifacts, and calls it fascinating that Armstrong took the alien-cave lore seriously.

His second mission is on land trying to find this Teaos cave

Michels says Peru introduced a bill banning the study of ancient biological specimens, probably in response to his video, and that after visiting the mummies he got sick for a few weeks and felt it 'broke my ego'.

Peru just put up a bill saying that you can't study ancient biological specimens

Michels says Guy Banister, who owned the New Orleans building where Oswald operated, had been a prominent FBI figure who ran the bureau's UFO files, 'the real X-Files', and that Fred Crisman, tied to the 1947 Maury Island incident near Kenneth Arnold's sighting, was one of the 'three hobos' arrested after the assassination.

Guy Banister, who was a very prominent FBI guy who ran the X-Files at the time

Michels says lawyer Danny Sheehan names David Morales and other Cuban exiles reactivated by Allen Dulles as the shooters on the grassy knoll.

he names the two guys on the grassy null

Michels relays a magazine story that Richard Nixon and Jackie Gleason went drinking, flew to Homestead Air Force Base, and Gleason saw a recovered crashed craft and alien bodies in freezers, after which he became a UFO enthusiast and built a UFO-shaped house.

I don't think it's been substantiated

Michels says David Grusch has said Dick Cheney (who died in November 2025) headed the UFO program; Rogan replies that Grusch said this to his friend, the reporter Walter Kirn.

David Grush has come out saying Cheney who just died was head of the UFO program

Michels says he has uncovered a lot around Henry Kissinger being involved in UFO matters, and wonders whether Kissinger was beholden to the Rockefellers rather than Nixon and helped undermine Nixon.

I've uncovered a lot around Kissinger actually being involved in the UFO stuff

Michels says he just interviewed the president of the Russian republic of Kalmykia, former president of the World Chess Federation for 25 years, who says he was abducted by aliens while in office, and that the beings he describes resemble Rogan's dream.

he got abducted by aliens while he was sitting president

Michels says he has Ilyumzhinov's staff on record saying they entered his room, found his clothes missing and could not find him for 30 to 60 minutes, then he walked out of a room they had already searched.

We went into his room, his clothes were missing, and we couldn't find him anywhere

Michels relays that Diana Pasulka reads St Francis's 1224 vision at Mount La Verna, a flaming torch in the original text, as an encounter whose stigmata were probably electromagnetic burns, and that Garry Nolan in The Age of Disclosure is examining biological effects of UAP encounters; he says Jacques Vallee documents similar stories from the 1700s and 1800s.

actually the stigmata he received is probably electromagnetic burns

Michels concludes humans are probably not at the top of the food chain and something else is going on.

We're probably not at the top of the food chain and there's like something else going on

Michels argues that UFOs, exotic physics and consciousness together make a coming paradigm shift likely, because at least one of the three must be right.

if you uh can stay at the front of those three things one's got to be right

Michels says Jacques Vallee investigated a crash in 1945 at Trinity near San Antonio, New Mexico.

actually investigated in 1945 in Trinity uh in San Antonito

Michels says the July 1947 Roswell crash involved beings emerging from the craft and that this is now discussed at the highest levels of US intelligence.

A few beings seem to to to come out and this is now being talked about at the highest levels of intelligence

Michels says a former Director of National Intelligence appears in the documentary The Age of Disclosure and talks about Roswell.

former director of national intelligence which governs all of our you know intelligence agencies is in is in a movie that talks about Roswell

Michels says Gen. Nathan Twining's 1947 memo states UFOs are not visionary or fictitious and describes right-angle turns and speeds beyond human aircraft.

UFOs are not visionary or fictitious

Michels says the Twining memo's postscript says any US effort to build such craft would have to exist outside the civilian government bureaucracy.

it would have to exist pretty much uh outside of the

Michels says the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 makes anything radiological automatically classified and that this gave UFO retrieval programmes a legal cover of secrecy.

it is just classified if it's at all radiological

Michels says Lincoln LaPaz concluded that green fireballs appearing after atomic detonations appeared intelligently propelled.

you have these green fireballs popping up after atomic detonations

Michels says a huge wave of UFOs appeared over Washington DC on 19 and 27 July 1952 and caused mass hysteria.

a huge wave of UFOs uh uh over DC

Michels reports Curtis Peebles's claim that Truman phoned Ruppelt about the 1952 DC flap, and says he cannot verify that the call occurred.

I'd love some more verification on whether that phone call occurred

Michels says the CIA's Robertson Panel concluded that public knowledge of UFOs flying over defence assets would cause mass hysteria and that this drove an official policy of downplaying them.

highest levels of government that would touch off mass hysteria

Michels says Project Blue Book's mandate was to downplay and explain away UFO reports.

Let's rationalize. Let's explain away UFOs.

Michels says astronomer J. Allen Hynek later admitted he took part in the Blue Book cover-up and had not taken UFOs seriously enough.

admits that he's part of the cover up and that he didn't take UFOs as seriously as he should have

Michels says surviving letters show Air Force Col. Robert Hippler asked Edward Condon to conclude that Project Blue Book was a waste of time.

we now have letters between him and an Air Force Colonel, Robert Hipler

Michels says about 25 percent of the cases reviewed in the Blue Book/Condon era are still unresolved.

I think 25% are still unresolved

Michels says Edward Condon, who led the 1966-68 Colorado UFO study, was the author of the 1946 McMahon Atomic Energy Act and a close Oppenheimer insider.

he's responsible for writing the McMahon secrecy act in 1946

Michels says a 1974 documentary, UFOs: Past, Present and Future, showed the Air Force becoming more open and featured Hynek and Vallee.

in 1974 a documentary called UFOs uh past, present and future where the air force starts to change its tune

Michels says Bob Lazar's account of working at S4 on UFO reverse engineering is very hard to debunk and has been corroborated over time.

the best debunkers probably have trouble, you know, uh, denying that he worked at Area 51

Michels says the 2017 New York Times story revealed UFO study programmes running from 2007 to 2012, mainly at Skinwalker Ranch.

not necessarily reverse engineering programs but study groups going on um from 2007 to 2012

Michels says the Nimitz tic-tac object covered 0 to 30,000 feet in about 7/8 of a second.

I think it was like 7/8 of a second to go from uh 0 to 30 30,000 ft or something like that

Michels says Commander David Fravor later went to work at Lockheed.

I believe commander David Fraver even worked went on to work at Lockheed

Michels says The Three-Body Problem was read at the highest levels of US government in working groups under Stephen Hadley around 2006 or 2007.

it was read at the highest levels of government in these sort of official working groups

Michels speculates that a minimally interfering non-human observer would watch nuclear sites and particle accelerators.

It would be at nuclear sites. It would be at particle accelerators.

Michels reports that Robert Monroe thought some non-human beings were harvesting human negative emotion ('loosh'), and says he does not know whether that is real.

maybe mining us for luch and these were the bad alien beings

Michels says Hastings's database records missile-crew and security witnesses reporting UFOs and missiles dropping offline, and in a few cases launch sequences starting before being deactivated.

sometimes in one or two cases sequences being activated, but they always get deactivated

Michels relays Bob Jacobs's claim that film of a September 1964 Vandenberg missile test showed a saucer firing lasers at a dummy warhead.

they see uh a saucer wrapping around the the dummy nuclear payload and or the re-entry vehicle and lasers being shot at it

Michels reports that Bob Jacobs says he was threatened and his Air Force service records were deleted after he talked.

they say he never served in the Air Force

Michels says Maj. Florenz Mansmann publicly confirmed that Bob Jacobs worked for him and managed 130 people.

he managed 130 people

Michels relays Richard Barr's claim that a hooded being at Vandenberg in September 1964 told him telepathically that they were there to do reconnaissance on nuclear weapons.

basically telepathically telling him, uh, we are here to do recon on your

Michels says his own claim is only that the evidence is worth investigating, and he walks back most claims made in UFO circles.

my extraordinary claim is like there's something worthy of investigation here

Michels says UFO sightings cluster around civilian nuclear sites too, including a town in Japan, a 1995 case in Argentina and Chernobyl.

You have a famous 1995 case in Baroce Argentina where a lot of UFOs seem to show up and that's around their civilian energy grid

Michels argues that the repeated nuclear-site reports make the null hypothesis (nothing real is happening) less plausible than a real phenomenon.

the null hypothesis becomes crazier than just admitting that there's some sort of phenomena at play

Michels says there are good reasons to believe the beings are not aliens from other planets but are connected to humanity.

they're not aliens from other planets and they're actually more connected to mankind than we think

Michels speculates that non-human intelligences may be the next stage of human evolution, existing outside the flow of time.

is that the next evolution of mankind that is sort of atmporal that has sort of you know access to a time agnostic realm

Michels says John Mack was head of Harvard's psychiatry department and systematically studied alien abductions in the 1990s.

the head of Harvard the Harvard psychiatry uh department in the '90s started to systematically study alien abductions

Michels says abduction reports cannot be trusted at face value because the entity may control the experiencer's whole sensory apparatus.

whatever's going on has this like 360 demonic control

Michels says gray and Nordic-looking beings recur consistently in abduction reports.

These gray alien beings do seem to show up consistently

Michels says there is not enough evidence to claim the beings come from a specific star system.

I think you need a lot of evidence for that and I don't think we have it

Michels says some people report abductions involving reptilian beings.

there's some evidence out there that like people experience abductions with these sorts of beings

Michels says Travis Walton touched a craft in an Arizona forest in the 1970s and was blown back, and his crew reported him missing.

Travis then touches the craft and gets blown back

Michels says Walton's coworkers passed lie detector tests and local sheriff questioning.

They all take lie detector tests and are like grilled by the local sheriff

Michels says Walton returned after about five days with a full beard, as if more time had passed than he recalled.

he has like a full grown beard, so it's like as if like more missing time had occurred

Michels says Walton recalled being on a craft with an operating table, with both gray beings and Nordic beings.

he had been basically on this craft with an operating table with both grays and actually Nordics

Michels relays Mario Woods's claim that four small gray beings approached his vehicle at an Ellsworth AFB missile site in 1977, telepathically saying 'do not fear'.

He sees four beings which look like little gray aliens walking towards his car and they're saying over and over again telepathically do not fear

Michels says Woods blacked out and woke up 9 miles from the Ellsworth base.

He wakes up 9 miles away from the base

Michels infers from Woods's account of post-incident tests that the base was familiar with such events.

which imply that they have some sort of familiarity that this thing happens a lot

Michels says abduction memories recovered by hypnotic regression fit the pattern of repressed memories from traumatic events.

it pattern matches to any extremely traumatic experience

Michels says Grusch and similar whistleblowers describe the beings as almost like biological androids.

they actually say that a lot of these beings are almost like biological androids

Michels says Woods himself objects to anyone treating the hypnotic-regression content of his story as real.

gets mad actually if people say the hypnotic regression part was real because he wants to stick to the facts

Michels says about 170 nuclear-site witnesses exist and that the true number is probably in the thousands.

you literally have 170 of these guys

Michels says David Grusch was a 14-year intelligence officer, an Afghanistan combat veteran and a handler of the Presidential Daily Brief.

He's a 14-year intelligence officer. He was an Afghanistan combat veteran.

Michels says Grusch gave the intelligence community inspector general hundreds of pages about reverse-engineering programs.

he gave the uh intelligence community inspector general Thomas Mannheim uh hundreds of pages about these reverse engineering programs

Michels says that when asked in Congress for warehouse addresses, Grusch replied he would provide them in a secure facility (SCIF).

Do you have the addresses of these warehouses where these UFOs are being kept?

Michels ranks the evidence for a real aerial phenomenon above the evidence for literal reverse-engineering programs.

something phenomenologically in our airspace being real probably above the idea that we have literal reverse engineering programs

Michels says it is established that Bob Lazar worked at Los Alamos.

we know he worked at Los Alamos

Michels says unnamed people around the current US administration talk about UFOs casually, as if they knew they were real.

they talk about the UFO stuff casually like they kind of know that there's they're there

Michels says Area 51 was not publicly known before Bob Lazar and that Lazar knew details others did not.

Area 51 wasn't a thing before Bob Lazar, so he knew details around its existence

Michels says Garry Nolan found isotope ratios in the Ubatuba, Brazil fragments that do not exist naturally on Earth.

contain isotope ratios that don't naturally exist on Earth

Michels guesses that the Department of Energy and the national labs are the likeliest custodians of any exotic physics.

I think the department of energy if you look at our most frontier weapons testing it is the department of energy

Michels says that replacing angel with alien in historical religious accounts produces accounts that look like modern UFO stories.

if you one to one replace angel with alien or demon with alien

Michels says a CBS show depicted wrap-around-eyed aliens around the time of the Hills' abduction account, suggesting media influence on perception.

depicts aliens with eyes being wrapped around their head just like they are seeing

Michels says he would not call the phenomenon alien but an observable empirical anomaly.

I wouldn't call the current thing alien. I would just call the current thing an empirical

Michels says an observable UFO phenomenon could reunite science and religion.

remerge science and the spirit which bifurcated around the enlightenment

Michels says Vallee describes the UFO phenomenon as a control system using intermittent reinforcement.

that's how Jacqualite discusses the phenomenas

Michels speculates that, if we are in a simulation, a guardian class might manage what abductees perceive and recall.

there is a guardian class that is literally managing the abduction cases themselves

Michels says the Hill case of 1961 is when gray aliens entered popular culture.

that is really when grays were introduced into the zeitgeist, uh was was probably 1961

Michels says Aleister Crowley's drawing of 'Lam' resembles a gray alien.

he drew this figure he called Lamb, which looks kind of like a gray alien

Michels says the gray, Nordic and reptilian figures are Jungian archetypes that are reinforced by culture but probably also real.

I think they're archetypal in sort of a Yungian sense

Michels says the CIA approached Garry Nolan around 2015 about UFO experiencers with unusual physical effects.

the CIA came knocking at his door I think in like the mid2010s like 2015

Michels says Garry Nolan has looked at UFO experiencers who have what look like radiation burns.

he's looking at a lot of UFO experiencers and they're experiencing literal radiation burns

Michels says crates in Close Encounters bore the names Skunk Works and TRW.

crates and uh Close Encounters one that says I think skunk works and another that says TRW

Michels relays Chris Bledsoe's claim that a senior NASA scientist visited him as UFOs appeared at his North Carolina home.

we now know that guy to be this guy named Hal Pavin Meyer, who we know is this senior scientist at NASA

Michels says the odds that extraterrestrial life evolved to look like upright hominids are very low.

the likelihood of evolutionary convergence to this bipedal homminate upright you know creature which by the way is somewhat rare on earth uh is just extremely slim

Michels argues future humans will look like grays through neoteny, as dogs relate to wolves.

what a dog is to a wolf that is probably what a future human is to a current human just based on pure natural selection

Michels says testosterone and sperm counts are falling off a cliff.

testosterone's falling off a cliff

Michels says over half of abduction cases involve humanlike beings and most of those are friendly.

if you look at a lot of abduction cases over 50% of them involve hominid like beings

Michels says Occam's razor suggests the beings are related to humans.

the easiest shortest path explanation is definitely that they're related to you

Michels says Barney Hill recalled that semen samples were taken from him.

semen samples were taken from him

Michels says some abduction messages claim the beings had a nuclear holocaust and need to renew their biodiversity.

we experienced a nuclear holocaust and we need to renew our biodiversity

Michels says the craft seem more like time machines than vehicles for leaving Earth.

the crafts seem more like almost time machines than they do like vehicles that take you off Earth

Michels says a sitting president of a Russian republic told him he was taken aboard a UFO.

I did just interview the president of a Russian republic who was taken aboard a UFO while he was sitting president

Michels says Tesla, Townsend Brown and Marconi reported communicating with aliens.

Both of whom literally said they spoke to aliens. Maronei also said they spoke to aliens.

Michels says his godfather made the 1974 UFO documentary.

his godfather exactly literally made the seminal UFO documentary in 1974

Michels says a coincidence before his Laurel Canyon sighting felt symbolic.

there's something symbolic about him looking for a thing

Michels says he saw a silent, gray, school-bus-shaped object in Laurel Canyon in 2020.

I see a UFO that looks like this kind of like a school bus shaped thing

Michels says the object was about 50 to 60 feet up, silent and physical.

50ish 60ish feet like right above the treetops

Michels says he and a friend saw two metallic bobbing orbs during a breathwork session in Silver Lake.

we look up and we see these two metallic orbs

Michels says the orbs disappeared rather than flew off.

they seem to like disappear like it's like as if they, you know, they didn't like they didn't fly off

Michels says Puthoff explains blurry UFO imagery by high-speed craft that compress or stretch light.

So you get these red shift or blue shift effects which are causing the sort of sunburn style stuff if you get into too close proximity to them

Michels names holograms, spoofing and secret propulsion as the strongest conventional explanation, then says it does not fit.

a combination of holographic holographic projections plus um you know and sort of spoofing technology

Michels says people in deep meditative states seem to see UFOs.

these people in these like deep meditative states seem to see see this stuff

Michels says Elon Musk told Tucker Carlson that pilots probably see classified US craft.

he went on I think Tucker Carlson and he walked back his dogmatic skepticism

Michels says UFOs are probably a zoo of different phenomena.

are we constantly are we conflating what is probably a zoo of phenomena? And that's probably the answer.

Michels says he has extremely high conviction something shows up over nuclear facilities worldwide.

extremely high conviction that something is showing up in the aerial space of nuclear facilities all over the world

Michels says the 1917 Fatima apparitions become more realistic in a mind-collapse world model.

the Fatima sighting of you know the Virgin Mary or whatever and you know 1917

Michels says Hal Puthoff started and ran the Stargate psychic spy programme.

he runs the psychic spy program in the US called Stargate out of Stanford and starts it

Michels says Puthoff told Rogan he discussed disclosure with Bush and Stephen Hadley.

he literally went on Joe Rogan's show and said like he contemplated disclosure with George W. Bush and his whole administration

Michels says Puthoff knows far more than he can say.

He's sitting on a lot more than he can uh than he can say

Michels says human consciousness is exceptional.

consciousness that is actually exceptional

Jesse Michels states he offered Mick West a wager (initially $10,000 at 1:1 odds, later reduced) that within 10 years there will be roughly 80% consensus across academia, military, and civilian sectors that non-human intelligence or future humans occupy these anomalous craft; West calls the bet unreasonable given the difficulty of verifying a future 'consensus,' and they settle on betting a beer instead.

I bet you $10,000 which is insane... that uh 80% we'd get 80% consensus... that non-human intelligence or future humans are occupying these sort of anomalous crafts.